Posts: 9,889. Mold remediation - aside from the health risks associated with living in a moldy home - is intrusive and very expensive. Polybutylene pipes are often used with copper fittings which can also confuse a homebuyer. I'm a licensed Home Inspector, Certified Professional Inspector (CPI), Certified Master Inspector (CMI), and FHA 203k Consultant. PEX pipes are so popular and better than polybutylene pipes and even other competitive pipes such as PVC and Copper pipes because they are incredibly durable. Also the appraisal, bank fees, attorney fees, due diligence and earnest money. Then don't buy it. You will need to excavate them for examination. What is the difference between PVC and ABS plumbing pipe? We will get it done for you. Better, but not a total solution. If you think you may have a problem of this type, talk immediately to your insurance agent. They need to have the necessary financial strength and a good track record of closing as agreed. This can be a good idea if you have made up your mind about purchasing the house because it is better to get the re-piping done before moving into the home. Why is it a problem? Most of our repipes fall somewhere between $4,500 and $15,000. Why can't a sanitary tee be used for a horizontal-to-horizontal drain pipe connection? Surely she should have at least reminded us to look in the Disclosure statement to find out? Certain regions have unique disclosure issues. if the sellers had disclosed the pipe material in the beginning. Simply use the form on HouseCashin.com to request a no-obligation cash offer on your property. Definitely negotiate to get them replaced if it's city water. These variables . Can galvanized steel pipe still be used for new water lines in a house? And how do you make sure that youre dealing with the right investor and the best offer? Messages sent using the form on this site, go directly to our email, which we check regularly. But, of course, there are expensive ones and relatively cheaper ones as well. 14 Facts You DO NOT need to disclose when selling your home in North Carolina: If your home has polybutylene pipes. How do you accurately find a broken water pipe leak under the floor slab? Polybutylene pipe health risks and product failures led to a successful class-action lawsuit in 1995. Why is it a problem? As mentioned above, the main problem with polybutylene pipes is that they are too fragile in the long run and become very weak from the inside and subsequently crack. "When I work with a seller in a neighborhood that I know has polybutylene, we always have to check before putting the house on the market," Willard adds. What causes a gurgling sound when a bathtub or sink drains? Sellers must also disclose polybutylene pipes to buyers when they sell their home. Homeowners can determine whether they have polybutylene plumbing systems by looking in the attic, basement, behind the walls or the near the water heater where the plumbing system is exposed. First, the buyer would need to be comfortable purchasing a home that requires extensive work to repair the damaged pipes. Polybutylene piping isn't inherently bad. A frequent by-product of the water damage was mold. Look for online reviews and go to BBB.com to see if there are unresolved complaints lodged against them with the Better Business Bureau. Learn about them in the next section of this article. Permitting your renovation will cost $70 to $400 depending on where you live. https://www.polybutylene.com/realtor.html. Houses are expensive things to own and unexpected bills can come up at any time. Another option you can consider if you are interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes is talking to the seller of the home or the real estate agency that is marketing the house and ask them whether or not it is possible to get the re-piping done and if they can split the cost with you to reduce the burden on you. The plumber will also help you identify any potential threats and risks the polybutylene pipes pose to the house. Since our founding in 1991, we've been completing residential and multi-family building repipes to the highest standard. They are regularly looking for homeowners selling a house in poor condition as is. Eventually, this could make them liable for lawsuits from their buyer. Can You Sell a House with Polybutylene Pipes? In the US, it has become generally accepted that the failures are most likely due to chemicals in municipal water supplies reacting with polybutylene - and this is one of the primary reasons why homeowners won a largeclass-action lawsuit against Shell Oil (who manufactured and marketed the polybutylene resin). In your case asking for $50k discount plus $20k probably wouldn't work. We completed all our inspections (structural, septic, water, pest, home), the bank ordered the appraisal, the Realtor hired the attorney. Make sure that any reviews that you rely on are authentic. A little about the house its a 3200 Sq ft house with 3 bathrooms which I offered 600k for and they listed for 550k. The Solution: A. Must have picked a poor agent and a poor home inspector, or gone carelessly without either. How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? In this case, real estate investors would be your best bet as they are the ones looking for homeowners selling homes in poor conditions. First of all, yes, you can sell your home with polybutylene water pipes. By that time millions of homes had already been built using these pipes. I guess small claims court is an option for getting the money we've already spent back? It is now mainly an academic exercise determining why a specific system failed and/or if an existing poly-b system may fail in the future. Buying a home in North/Central Florida? Not sure a home has poly? When polybutylene leaks occur in US plumbing systems, the leaks are often at or near connectors. Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. Are plastic pipes (PVC, CPVC, and PEX) safe for drinking water? 16822 SE 92nd Danna Avenue, The Villages, FL 32162, www.thevillagesbestinspector.com Comments or questions tomcgarryandmadsen@mac.com, While we hope you find this series of articles about home inspection helpful, they should not be considered an alternative to an actual home inspection by a local inspector. You should discuss with them the different kinds of pipes available and the cost of each. Many of them specifically require you to disclose whether or not you are aware of polybutylene piping on your property. Although, today, one of the most popular water pipes is PEX pipes. What do you mean I cant get home insurance? We know that many houses built between 1978 and 1995 have polybutylene pipes. No, it is no longer produced. The damage starts on the inside of the pipes. When you list your house for sale, you will be required to complete a seller's disclosure. PB-1 combines typical characteristics of conventional polyolefins with certain properties of technical polymers. Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. You'll need evidence that shows two things: 1) that the water damage existed prior to your purchasing the house; and 2) that the seller knew of and did not disclose the existing, or prior, water damage. These minerals are a primary reason that contributes to the deterioration of the polybutylene pipes. They would need to be comfortable with buying a property that may need extensive work to replace the pipes and repair any damage. The property will have to be fixed before closing if a mortgage is involved. Polybutylene (PB) piping was standard in homes built between 1978 and 1996. Also in 1989, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing. Some forums can only be seen by registered members. Now You Know. Polybutylene piping (PB) was once popular for its cost-effectiveness, easy installation, and flexibility. Polybutylene pipe is a gray plastic tubing that was commonly used as a water-supply plumbing pipe between 1978 and 1995, at which time it was discontinued due to reports of pipes rupturing. If you reach our answering service, please leave a message: we return calls in the order they are received. I think you are correct to worry about it, and if she has those pipes in her house she's in denial that it won't impact her ability to sell at some point or cause her expensive repairs. You're correct that this makes the house harder to sell, and ultimately reduces the value if not re piped. She wants her X-thousand(s) of dollars from you and that's her priority. Another option is to replace polybutylene pipes with copper pipes. If the seller chooses not to replace the polybutylene pipes, give them a release agreement to sign that protects you from all potential liability. When it comes to removing polybutylene and installing a new plumbing system, our team of professionals exceeds all customer expectations. In conclusion, polybutylene pipes are. Does a Seller Have to Disclose the Presence of Polybutylene Pipes in the Home? Only a licensed plumber can tell the polybutylene pipes health and estimate how long these will last without risking the house and its structural integrity. Does a repipe include drain pipes? The seller: Nearly every U.S. state has laws requiring sellers to advise buyers of certain defects in the property, typically by filling out a standard disclosure form before the sale is completed. However, the total cost of repiping a house may be as high as $15,000 depending on a variety of factors. They were installed in almost 10 million homes at a substantial savings over the conventional copper plumbing pipes. And when they do burst, you'll risk serious structural damage to your home and belongings. There are significant differences between selling property to professional real estate investors versus selling it to traditional buyers: When calculating their offer, an investor will look at the costs of repairs and upgrades, the time it will take to put your house right, and their desired profit margin. The uncertainty surrounding your homes plumbing will easily push it off of their list. If you have the funds to make repairs but need to sell quickly, you will also want to look at an investor sale. Seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes in the Disclosure Statement My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. If you think your home may have polybutylene pipes, have a plumber and/or contractor come out to inspect your home. What is the difference between water service pipe and water supply pipe? Even though polybutylene pipes are safe for drinking water, they will fail over time. Are plastic pipes (PVC, CPVC, and PEX) safe for drinking water? Generally speaking however, we know insurance coverage for homes with poly piping has been a headache for many homeowners. Exterior repiping will add to that estimate. Polybutylene pipes were manufactured from 1978 - 1995. Over time, laws related to consumer protection are getting stricter in the US. By the 1990s, however, problems had begun to surface. It's money well spent if it saves you a $20,000 bill. Your second choice would be to replace any polybutylene pipes in your property and sell it the traditional way. The final eligibility deadlines for this class action expired many years ago. Copyright. Here are some facts you should note: (1) a broker was sued in Virginia for not disclosing the fact that a home had polybutylene plumbing, (2) a property management firm is being sued for non-disclosure in the condo resale certificates, and (3) an inspection company was sued for failing to disclose poly in a hotel property. Or perhaps your polybutylene plumbing sprung a leak, and you are trying to decide if you should repair or replace it? Enter a valid a 10-digit phone number as ###-###-####. Because polybutylene pipes will fail, it's just a matter of when it will happen. Locating and working on existing pipes requires cutting holes in your walls. Heres links to a collection of our other blog posts about PLUMBING PIPES: How can I protect my pipes to keep them from bursting during a hard winter freeze in North Florida? What is the difference between green and white sewer drain pipes? Initially, contractors installed around 10 million polybutylene pipes in homes in the US. Polybutylene pipes fall under the category of a material defect, and almost all states make you disclose any information related to a property defect. Both systems are backed by a lifetime warranty. Does polybutylene need to be replaced . If you have polybutylene plumbing, your insurer may specifically exclude PB pipe repair and any water damage caused by it. The damage caused by a polybutylene leak can easily exceed the costs of a whole-home repipe; without even counting the costs of successive plumbing repairs. Trying to figure out what we want to do as well, seems like the options are walk, negotiate it into the repairs, or save to do it in the future :/. Water supply piping only, not used for drains or vents. Now four years later in the inspection report from my buyer a more dramatic statement is made: "Polyethylene Plumbing Supply Lines have been known to to be randomly defective and can rapture without notice" and the buyer wants me to replace the Polybutylene Pipes in the condo. Regarding the first option, the question arises: who would be interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes? When this happens, weakened pipes will rupture. No, you shouldn't buy a home with polybutylene pipes. How would your realtor know that if it was mistakenly checked on the disclosure. If you find a vendor who was previously in the house and alerted them to the fact that the pipes needed to be replaced you have proof. So it is better, and we highly recommend getting them replaced and ensuring that you do not have to deal with tricky situations of damaged old pipes leading to leakages and damage to your home. How can I tell if I have cast iron pipes in my house? Why can't a sanitary tee be used for a horizontal-to-horizontal drain pipe connection? In the meantime, leaks and water damage can result in mold growth and unhealthy conditions in your home. >>. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Polybutylene pipes are a significant inconvenience for plumbers because these pipes cracks and leakages are not easy to find. Get quotes and review them for completeness. real estate B. You will have to spend a lot of time, money, and energy trying to repair the pipes. Can I Sell My House with a Property, State or IRS Tax Lien? In reality, getting polybutylene pipes replaced does not cost more than, for example, recarpeting your home would cost you. Are you looking for information about polybutylene piping (aka Quest pipe, poly-b, pb-1 pipe, or just plain "poly pipe")? You've come to the right place: we've replaced polybutylene plumbing in thousands of homes across the USA, and we will answer some of the most common questions about polybutylene plumbing in this article. Also the pipes were not disclosed by the seller. Our Realtor is not being helpful as she doesn't want us to walk away. If As weve mentioned, the uncertainty of buying a home that has polybutylene pipes creates a scary situation for most homebuyers. This means that a buyer would need to have the financial ability to buy the home and then make repairs. The inspection money has now saved you from buying a house you don't want. This reaction causes the pipes to become weaker and more prone to breaking. Polybutylene pipe is a gray plastic tubing that was commonly used as a water-supply plumbing pipe between 1978 and 1995, at which time it was discontinued due to reports of pipes rupturing. Additionally, it has become very common for sellers to either make concessions for a buyer to re-pipe after closing or to re-pipe the home themselves before the sale. They can handle most of the diligence themselves and are the only decision-maker involved on their side of the deal. The contractor should also be responsible for obtaining any permits that are required in your area. Looking for your dream house can be difficult; finding a home that you like and a place that has exactly what youve been looking for can be challenging and time-consuming as well. Since this is probably unfamiliar territory for you, you will need to be prepared to spend a lot of time searching on the Internet. This way you can decide which method is right for you. Interior pipes are white and can be confused for other types of piping. Now that weve looked at the options for selling your house with polybutylene pipes, you can apply them to your circumstances. They can also be flexible in setting a closing date that fits your needs. If all the plumbing drains have water in them and you can still smell sewer gas, what's causing the problem? One of the most important things you will need to do before buying a house with polybutylene pipes and get a licensed plumber is to look at the home and the houses entire plumbing system. We will get it done for you. It is estimated that a lot of homes built during that time still have the original plumbing in place. 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